A possible unforeseen consequence of the "un-educating" of Israel Chareidi women
I won't talk about the fact that this ruling is an insult to women, implying that we're nothing but children who need constant supervision lest we get in trouble, as if we have no brains (and/or too much by way of brains, these rabbis might think) and are not responsible adults. That's already been discussed elsewhere.
I won't talk about the distinct possibility that this ruling is a power play by male authorities afraid of the slightest challenge and/or sign of independence. That's already been discussed elsewhere.
I won't talk about the fact that this ruling condemns an already-impoverished community to further poverty without hope of future financial self-sufficiency. That's already been discussed elsewhere.
Here's an excerpt from the original article from Haaretz:
"The rabbis were mostly infuriated by the psychological subjects in the teaching programs. Freud and Western psychology had always been a red rag to them.
The absence of ultra-Orthodox lecturers with academic degrees in diagnostics and consulting required bringing in lecturers from "outside" the community. Yated Neeman's women's supplement, Bayit Neeman, blasted the trend of bringing in lecturers from the "Sephardi faction" and even "completely secular" ones, warning of the women students' defilement."
The absence of ultra-Orthodox lecturers with academic degrees in diagnostics and consulting required bringing in lecturers from "outside" the community. Yated Neeman's women's supplement, Bayit Neeman, blasted the trend of bringing in lecturers from the "Sephardi faction" and even "completely secular" ones, warning of the women students' defilement."
Exactly how are the children with disabilities in this community to be educated, if no one in their own community is authorized to acquire the knowledge necessary to help them? Where are the modestly-dressed physical therapists and occupational therapists and Yiddish-speaking speech and language therapists to come from, if none of the women in this community are permitted to pursue studies that will qualify them for these positions? Or do the rabbis propose to lock these children in a room and throw away the key?
posted by Shira Salamone at 1:59 AM
6 Comments:
They go to modern Orthodox therapists, who study (in Israel) at Bar Ilan University.
Oh, I see. So it's okay for these kids to go outside of their community and be "contaminated" on an individual basis by their therapists, but not for women of this community to be "contaminated" by education. Fascinating, but not funny.
This reminds me of a discussion a few months ago on one blog or the other about the symbiotic relation between the Modern Orthodox (and, for that matter, the rest of the synagogue-going Jewish community) and the Chareidim. The Chareidim rely on non-Chareidi college graduates to be their doctors, lawyers, and accountants (not to mention physical, occupational, and speech and language therapists), while the non-Chareidim rely on the Chareidim to be our sofrim (a sofer is a scribe who hand-writes Torah scrolls and parchments for tefillin and mezuzot), shochtim (kosher slaughterers), etc., positions not necessarily deemed profitable enough for college graduates.
Apparently, this particular Chareidi community wishes to ensure that its employed women occupy positions that are just as unprofitable as those of its (few?) employed men. After all, what would be the fun in allowing Chareidi families to earn an income reasonable enough that they wouldn't be dependent on charity?
Shirah, you raise an interesting point about the children with disabilities in the Haredi comunity. To be honest this whole thing makes my stomach turn. First, a situation is created where husbands, instead of providing for their wives as the written Torah commands, and holding down a job as the oral Torah strongly advises, spend their days in Collel learning all the theoretical knowledge in the world and planning to stay that way for God knows how long, thus causing the wife to have to go out and be the bread winner, while foregoing all of the "priveliges" associated with a public role like that. Then, this. Exactly how are these women supposed to earn a living for their husbands and family, raise several children, all on what I'm sure amounts to very meager salaries? It's one thing to end up in that situation without planning it, but this seems like a rabbinic ruling to end up there on purpose. I just don't get it, and believe me, this doesn't come from any disrespect felt on my part toward the Orthodox. I have a lot of respect for Orthodox Jews, and find myself agreeing with most of the beliefs, outlook ETC., and consider myself more of a very traditional, religious Jew as opposed to a Conservative Jew simply because I refuse to go along with what JTS is spouting lately. But this, and things like it, just goes too far.
"It's one thing to end up in that situation without planning it, but this seems like a rabbinic ruling to end up there on purpose." Rahel, follow this road and get even more freaked out:
(Sorry, couldn't get the URLs to publish in this comment--follow the "links" link to Ezzie's post, from there to Krum as a Bagel's, and from there to Hasidic Rebel's, from which I copied the quote below):
"In a report to the "B'sha'ah Tovah" magazine, a group of individuals, headed by a multi-millionaire named Zev Wolfson, are reported to have come up with a grandiose plan to establish vocational training possibilities for young Charedi men. Wolfson, who has made a name for himself raising funds from government and private sources in the U.S., arrived at the home of Rabbi Steinman with an amazing offer. He nonchalantly withdrew an envelope with a signed check of 100 million dollars for the project.
The rabbi surprised all who were there when he sharply remarked, "It is better that Torah students and young men live in poverty rather than wealth. Torah scholars have only emerged from those who have endured lives of deprivation. In all periods where there were difficult tests [of faith], the reality has shown that the poor have withstood those tests from a spiritual vantage point. The wealthy and the prospeous did not withstand those tests, and all their descendants have strayed from the path."
It would appear that this rabbi may have forgotten the rabbinic statement (from Pirkei Avot/Verses of the Fathers?) "Im ein kemach, ein Torah, If there is no bread, there is no Torah."
I won't talk about the fact that this ruling is an insult to women, implying that we're nothing but children who need constant supervision lest we get in trouble, as if we have no brains (and/or too much by way of brains, these rabbis might think) and are not responsible adults.
Come on, the men have to deal with constant supervision too.
I won't talk about the distinct possibility that this ruling is a power play by male authorities afraid of the slightest challenge and/or sign of independence. That's already been discussed elsewhere.
There are women in favor of the ruling, and plenty of men are unhappy about it. (One of the arguments given against it, by the way, is that most women will in fact choose to get exactly the same education, just not in a haredi institution.)
So yeah, it would have been better if you hadn't talked about these two subjects :)
I'm uneasy about the "mitzvah-to-be-poor" faction of the charedi community, but keep in mind that not everyone subscribes to it.
I think the vast majority of the American haredi community believes in productive employment, thus a large number of them become lawyers, businessmen, etc. (Obviously that's less true in Israel)
"Come on, the men have to deal with constant supervision too." Okay, granted. I guess I would feel a bit better about that if we women had some input in the system. As matters currently stand, since all Orthodox rabbis are male and poskot (female poskim, decisors on matters of Jewish law) are not yet accepted, therefore, by definition, every rule that an Orthodox women follows comes from (G-d via) a man.
"There are women in favor of the ruling, and plenty of men are unhappy about it. (One of the arguments given against it, by the way, is that most women will in fact choose to get exactly the same education, just not in a haredi institution.)"
Okay, that's good to know.
"I'm uneasy about the "mitzvah-to-be-poor" faction of the charedi community, but keep in mind that not everyone subscribes to it.
I think the vast majority of the American haredi community believes in productive employment, thus a large number of them become lawyers, businessmen, etc. (Obviously that's less true in Israel)"
I certainly hope that you're correct about the American chareidi community. Why do you suppose that there's such a "cult of poverty" among some of the Israeli chareidim?
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